#elmike fight

[gayofthefae]

You know how I know Mike is queer?

These are the same person. Mike is an inherently caring, loving, and protective person. It's what Will called out in 4x08 and reminded us of with Mike's desire and practice in attempt to be a "hero" and be able to help the ones he loves.

But when El tells him she feels unloved by him, he doesn't comfort her. At all. He defends himself. He doesn't even say "yes I do". He says "I say it". Even when he's arguing that he loves her, he is defending himself, not comforting her. If he was comforting her he would have reacted to her crying at all. He doesn't. He just becomes increasingly desperate and escalates the tactics that are making her cry more.

Because the accusation is that important to him. Not many things could be so important to him that he would deprioritize her or taking care and protecting and comforting those he loves. He even does quite well at it at the start of the scene. We have PROOF that he is pretty stable these days with any sort of accusation or invalidation with how well he takes "you don't understand" and simply asks questions without any sort of offense. So he CAN take it. He takes it IN THIS CONVERSATION.

But when she says he doesn't love him, he stops the "they just don't know you". He stops the "don't say that about yourself, you're lovable," which is what this is really about for her. If he had said that even if he couldn't say it himself, it might have still helped a little bit: frame it as his own fault if he can't. But he couldn't do that. Instead, he went with how it reflected on HIM that he couldn't say it and defended himself AGAINST her. FOUGHT her on it.

There are few things that can make him fight a person. And they've all actually been pretty similar. They're all El:

"You're prioritizing El over Will"

"There is something off about your relationship with El"

"You're prioritizing El over [Will]"

"He's right that your and [El's] relationship wasn't a good one"

"Your and El's relationship wasn't a good one"

"You're prioritizing El over [Will]"

"You don't love [El]"

He is comforting. He is kind. He prioritizes others' comfort and safety consistently. He takes other accusations fairly lightly and focuses back onto the person making them and their emotions. And yet, what does he say in those instances and only those instances?

"SHUT. UP."

"You lying piece of shit. You're crazy!"

"It's not my fault you don't like girls!"

"He's just some crazy old man"

"You're conspiring against me!"

"We're friends! We're friends!"

"You're being ridiculous. What is this?"

People who say his character has gotten worse are stating it under the idea that he is always like this. The entire discovery so many people, including myself, had that he's queer was because we noticed that his outbursts were consistent. People think he's random and angry because they think the situations are random: Lucas, Hopper, Will, Max, El. But they're forgetting to note what each of those people questioned about him right before.

The biggest proof is that he doesn't ever talk like this outside of these situations. It's lighthearted debates and empathetic conversations.

Mike Wheeler is a kind person. If he said "You're being ridiculous. What is this?" it is not just because he's scared of vulnerability or commitment.

[gayofthefae]

The way the subtext varies from "I didn't say that/how do I convince you" 'NO! neverrrr' to "okay now that's bullshit and you know it"

mike lying vs mike telling the truth

"You think I'm a monster too."

*high pitched, animated facial expression* "What?!"

vs

"What about us?"

*firm, but quiet. solid eye contact* "What?"

"Yesterday. The way you looked at me. . .you were scared of me."

*head shaking, rapid blinking* "No, no- *scoffs* that's not- that's- that's not true."

vs

"What, you're mad that I didn't talk to you? Seems like you've made it super clear you're not interested in anything I have to say."

*firm, solid eye contact, no stuttering* "That's just not true."

i still can't believe people called finn a bad actor because of this

FINN WOLFHARD??? BAD ACTOR???? PUH LEEZ

MIKE is a bad actor, not finn

[will80sbyers]

STRANGER THINGS 4x03 El & Mike's fight | back

[emblazons]

Forewarning: Gay Mike talk skip if you want

Not to be that person in 2024 that pride gifset did it to me but I still genuinely do not understand how the "girls being girls was never a problem for Mike" argument came to be, considering THIS the show's Mike talking about, learning about, confessing to and just being around spaces re: girls:

note: this isn't even touching any of the moments we see hints that he's into boys—JUST the moments where we see his displeasure with/disinterest in engaging with girls (or commentary by other guys who are interested in them). Will, a confirmed gay character, doesn't even have this many reminders of his lack of interest in girls.

Once is a coincidence. Twice is a pattern. Twelve times without real effort to pull every example? and I didn't even include him taking a girls hands off him while kissing or the four other times they kissed eyes open or hidden? Iet's be so serious lmao

[demadogs]

its so fucking sad that el wanted angela to tell mike that it was just a joke and that theyre really friends. both mike and el are trying so hard to be someone else to keep their relationship alive.

[gayofthefae]

For real. It was honestly a case of horrible timing. "You are lovable, I'm the problem" is tbh all she needed to hear. She thought she was inherently unlovable by anyone, proved by the fact that "even" her boyfriend didn't love her. But he DID love her, he was just going through his own thing.

Perfect example though of two unrelated arcs coming together for a scene that serves both of them and their separate courses for the season.

bro if i was el when she realises mike didn't say 'i love you' because he's gay rather than because she's the problem/ a monster, i would be relieved personally

[upsidedownlurker]

Crazed Byler ramblings from 1:54 am

If Mike Wazowski actually end up together I will laugh so hard

YOU’RE TELLING ME THIS WAS THE MAIN COUPLE’S FIRST KISS???

YOU’RE TELLINJG ME THIS WAS THE MAIN COUPLE’S ACTUAL LOVD CONFESSION??? (eyes stay open to view that luscious forehead ig)

YOU’RE TELLING ME THIS WAS A BEAUTIFUL AND FACTUALLY ACCURATE ROMANTIC SPEECH THAT ENDED A QUARREL BETWEEN TWO FATED LOVERS???

YOU’RE TELLING ME MIKE IS JUST LIKE THAT?????

Imagine accidentally writing one of the most enticing queer stories in your genre, amassing an audience who are incredibly enthusiastic about it, and ignoring that because… uh… because… ummm…

Hey man, I won’t deny that Mickey Mouse and Earache have an important bond. But they truly have some of the most awkward, wack, fall-flat face-planting “romantic” chemistry of any couple on the show, and if their relationship succeeds it will just be so funny

The people working on this show are capable of creating genuinely beautiful scenes that have brought me to tears multiple times. I have been utterly enraptured in their worlds, their characters and their stories

So if they wrote Medicine Cabinet and thought, “Another enticing romance story well done”?

If they wrote Byler and thought, “CLASSIC BFF MOMENT LADS LADS LADS”?

I would laugh so hard that I travel back in time to save myself from this nightmare

Us silly queer people don’t know shit about shit dude

Ok bye time to escape this hell

And by hell I mean a fun and wholesome time

and by a fun and wholesome time I mean HELL🔥🔥🔥🔥🥩😏

[wibble-wobbegong]

listen. listen closely. i need you to understand that el doesn’t hate mike and everything he does. her rejections of him and his interests when they were twelve were not out of disliking what mike was doing but rather it was the first time she was ever out of a lab and she was exploring. she had no fucking clue what mike was talking about. when she stopped him from singing, it wasn’t necessarily because she hated mike singing but she wanted them to continue doing the things she learned from TV were couple-esque, and that didn’t include doing fun things. tv romance was all drama and obsession and el was copying that because she had been envisioning that for her and mike for the entire year she was in hopper’s cabin.

el isn’t perfect, and she does dismiss mike’s experience with bullying and she doesn’t consider his interests when planning their day in california. her planning their day is her attempt at maintaining that normalcy she’s desperate for by having the perfect relationship she believes herself to have with mike and going and doing the things she’s likely seen other couples doing. el dismissing mike’s experience with bullying is charged by a lot of emotional frustration and feeling like mike is rejecting (not as a girlfriend but as a normal person because he was angry with her for hitting angela) her and views her as a monster. neither of those things are okay, but there is an explanation outside of mike himself

i feel like there’s been this viewpoint that’s been built up that el actually doesn’t like mike or his interests and i think that erases the complexity of el’s perspective on this situation. part of the reason we see el enjoying things with max she never did with mike says more about el learning to enjoy things on her own because she doesn’t feel pressured to act heteronormatively than it does about her opinion of mike. el doesn’t hate mike and his talking about things, but her view of what both of them are supposed to act like removes both of their personalities being involved.

when we see el at sbp after coming into a much better understanding of herself and who she wants to be, she says she misses mike. she knows she doesn’t love him romantically but she still wants him in her life. i know i’ve said mike wants to be friends with el, but it goes the other way. el wants to be friends with mike too!! she doesn’t hate him or his interests, we actively see her enjoying those things with max, but she doesn’t think either of them are supposed to express that stuff in their relationship. it’s unfair to say el doesn’t like when mike talks about things and does stuff like singing because it gets rid of the effects heteronormativity has had on her too

[strangersynth]

reducing mike and el's love for each other to something that'll make their relationship stumble and fall if not evaporate when they break up will never not be like emptying a room and then walking in and wondering why its empty.

[gayofthefae]

He knew that confrontation of the problem was something they couldn’t come back from. That’s why he was avoiding it. He knew it’s presence at all was the end because he couldn’t fix it.

The first time I watched s4, when Mike said "like a fight you can't come back from" that was when I knew for certain that he is not in love with El. And that is why I knew he wasn't being genuine in the monologue. Because the fight was about him not loving her. If he loved her, why would that be a fight you can't come back from? Sure, it'd make sense to feel anxious about it. But to feel hopeless about it? If all you needed to do was say "I love you, and I'm sorry I made you feel like I didn't. I want to do better. I will do better." and then do better - because really that's all he had to do - then why is that a fight you can't come back from?

It's because he knows that he doesn't love her. And he knows she knows. And he knows that saying "I love you" won't fix that.

And that was the conclusion I came to as a casual watcher.

[elekinetic]

thinking abt how el signed her note “from el” which indicates she’s done trying to get mike to love her which like. ok. breakup probably but at the very least that means they are actively fighting and yk like. why wouldn’t they bring that energy back in their reunion at sbp. like yeah at the end of the season el is a little closed off and she’s not really talking to mike but that’s bc she’s upset about max/the way ep 9 shakes out, not mike and el’s fight. why was el warm to mike again at sbp when we saw no progress in their relationship up to that point? after the dust of the nina project had settled, wouldn’t she still be upset? if she’s reigniting their relationship, it would have to be her forgiving mike and we haven’t seen anything that indicates she’s processed that or that mike has done anything adjacent to an apology. so why was el warm?

[gayofthefae]

You know of course depression plays a part in it but people say with Mike his inability to say it was what was causing her to think that besides that but I'd like to remind us all of the saying "If he loved you, you'd know"

We need to come back to the fact that yes, Mike couldn't say that he was in love with El. But there are other ways to convey to someone that you're in love with them.

Actions speak louder than words and, really, it was never about lacking the words. It was about how lacking the words pointed out clearer than ever that the actions weren't there in the first place.

Having the words can shield the fact that he doesn't seem like he's in love with either. You assume that both are there. But if one goes away and there's nothing left...you can't really unlearn that. She knows that he loves her now. I wonder what she knows of him being in love with her.

Because she didn't confront him on the word itself until prompted. Their original fight was about his actions. "The way you looked at me," for example. It wasn't he was in love with her but just couldn't say the word.

It was that not being able to say the word meant that there were no bells and whistles to distract

from things like this

Because that argument looks different with no supporting evidence of him not loving her outside of the words. But the words are her supporting evidence. To her initial point: his actions. The words weren't even part of her original argument. She hadn't even felt the need to reach for them as proof.

That argument was not just based on his words. So how can the solution be? He was acting like he wasn't in love with her. She caught it. And at that point, probably started noticing he never said it. Because I doubt she started counting days from when he first said or even when she left if she assumed as she seemed to for a while that she did. It didn't seem like she's was counting every day for eight months. It seemed like she started to notice and checked her facts to find they were right. Something prompted that. Maybe a couple letters in a row were a little dry. Maybe she needed it more one day, then noticed that week after week it didn't come and checked back.

But her observation of him not saying it was prompted by his actions. It's why she didn't even bring up his words herself. Only when he argued her. They were her trump card, not her argument.

The fight was about Mike's actions. His words were just an example. He still hasn't solved his actions. Remember, by her account:

This was him not convincing her too.

He has not fixed this. He has stalled it. At best, he put it back to where it was before she noticed, not before it was true.

[evil-ontheinside]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if we had a scene in s5e1 where Mike clearly tells El that he loves her and then it cuts away to another scene only to reveal one or two ep later (or maybe in the same ep, I don't want a repeat of august) that it was followed by a but and actually the moment they broke up?

[gayofthefae]

My moment was the cop car. She refused to look at him. And then "From, El"? With the LEVEL of satisfaction that evoked? Oh, yeah. Mike would have to self-sabotage like CRAZY and def hurt both of them to keep that relationship......

......oh

But yeah, him not being able to say it was actually very important. She needed him but she couldn't provide so she learned not to need him. Regardless of whether he provided by the end, she's not gonna unlearn that. The whole thing with her arc is that to actually undo the time and to go back to that fight and have him say it would be to revert her to that dependency and self-hatred she was in as well, they are inseparable.

this is the frame that made me think el and mike were done and there was no fixing it

look at her face bro. she looks defeated. just so done with everything.

she's had a fucking horrible six months. she left her home, got bullied and harassed at school, and just got PUBLICLY bullied harassed AND assaulted, gave her bully a concussion with a roller skate, got her lie exposed to her boyfriend

she feels terrible. and you know what would make her feel a little better? her boyfriend telling her he loves her. it would help her feel less terrible. and he can't fucking do it. instead, he gaslights her and makes HER out to be the crazy one for wanting him to say it

she's fucking over it and she has every right to be

[will80sbyers]

STRANGER THINGS 4x03 El & Mike's fight | next

[pinksmonkey]

The Ultimate Byler Evidence/Analysis List (Part 3)

If you missed parts 1 or 2, here they are: Part 1 and Part 2

198. Bi Mike Masterpost

199. Byler Parallels Masterpost

200. The Choices The Writers Made

201. The Significance Of Mileven Not Getting Each Other

202. The Importance Of Byler Getting Each Other

203. The Importance Of Byler Getting Each Other - Part 2

204. Moments I've Been Thinking About

205. The Painting Ensures Byler Endgame

206. Byler Canon-Comforts

207. Will's Season 5 Arc

208. Elmike's Transition

209. Mike, Will, And El's Individual Arcs Each Season

210. Mike Wheeler's Playlist

211. I Ship It Because It's Endgame

212. I Love You On Your Bad Days

213. Mike Wasn't Lying When He Said "I Love You" And It Doesn't Rule Out Byler Endgame

214. Mike Was Thinking About Will When He Jumped Off The Cliff

215. Will Needs Mike

216. So Many Things Wrong With This Post

217. Why Byler Is Endgame

218. Amount Of Byler Scenes Compared To Mileven

219. Mike's Choice Of Words

220. Fundamentally A Story About Queer Themes

221. We Should Talk About This Way More

222. The Gay Beautician/Hairdresser Trope

223. If Byler Doesn't Happen

224. You Only Need To Understand Five Things

225. Who's Getting Books And Who Isn't?

226. Crafting A Confession

227. You're The Heart

228. Pocketgate Details You Might Have Missed

229. The Piggyback Drawing

230. Green Socks

231. Byler Fights VS Mileven Fights

232. I Didn't Say It, You Didn't Have To

233. Heroes

234. The Difference Between The Monologues Is Obvious

235. "Something I Never Stop Thinking About"

236. The Importance of Tiger Pride

237. Why Heroes Will Be Back

If you have anything else you think should be added to the list, let me know, leave a link in the comments or a repost. I will continue updating this list with any new awesome analyses. Happy Byler-ing! ☺️

238. Season 1 Mike Queercoding

239. Fandom's Reaction To The Will Is Gay Theory Repeating With Mike

240. Tropes and Byler

241. The Superman Reference

242. Milevens Are Insane

243. Mileven's Season